>WOW. Sounds like LbNA has a winner with Eric's offer to host
>Letterbox.org.... I say, go with it.
Jay,
Thanks for the comment. To be open about the issue, there is likely
hesitation about my offer due to the early history of letterboxing web
related activities. To be brief, I ran the original letterboxing-talk
list before this one existed. I had registered the domain name
letterboxing.com and wished to make a "club" (International Letterboxing
Club) to provide a variety of resources. There was a great deal of debate
because I refused to rule out advertising on the site/list or other forms
of revenue such as sales of supplies and advocated promotion of
letterboxing to the public (as opposed to a secretive word of mouth
approach). After much heated debate, I suggested that others who were
opposed to what I was trying to do should go ahead and form other
resources (websites and mailing lists). Truthfully by that time I had
become quite burned out on the whole mess, and did not feel like pursuing
development of my site. Subsequently, a the LBNA site and the egroups
list was created and has provided a very valuable cooperative community
for the promotion of letterboxing.
Since that time I have done very little development of my site though I
have begun some work again recently. The letterboxing-talk list has
remained open and has about 70 members at this time though with little
activity. Many of the same people I believe are on both lists. As of
now, I do not have any plans to place advertising or sell products on the
International Letterboxing Club site and would like to primarily develop
it as a central database of clues and letterboxing sites. However, I will
not rule out further development of my site (ILC) which may include
advertising or other forms of revenue. I doubt this will happen, but to
me it is a matter of principal.
My offer of hosting of the LBNA site is EXACTLY as I described it
previously, and completely unrelated to anything I might do with the
International Letterboxing Club site. If there are too many hard feelings
based upon things that have happened in the past for people to feel
comfortable with my offer, then I guess that is the way it has to be. I
can deal with that, I am a psychologist who deals with all forms of human
trajedy on a daily basis. I have other things that I am working on
developing, that to me are much more important in the ultimate scheme of
things than whether my offer is accepted. Again, I wish the best for the
LBNA site regardless of where it may live in the future.
--
Regards,
Eric Mings Ph.D.
What an offer
10 messages in this thread |
Started on 2000-07-11
Re: [LbNA] What an offer
From: Eric Mings (elm@ao.net) |
Date: 2000-07-11 22:34:09 UTC-04:00
What an offer
From: Jay (ae4mk@1bigred.com) |
Date: 2000-07-11 21:54:56 UTC-07:00
WOW. Sounds like LbNA has a winner with Eric's
offer to host Letterbox.org.... I say, go with it.
If you wanted to split the country into 4-6
sections, I would step up and try to manage say Mid Atlantic or Virginia,
Southeast... Or what ever would work out. Sounds like there are quite a few
people with HTML back ground. Mine is at a very fundamental level as you can
tell from my basic pages... And I personally like how the LbNA sites link
over to some individual pages.
Jay C.
Fredericksburg, (we-are-almost-there)
VA
Re: [LbNA] What an offer
From: (mohmers@aol.com) |
Date: 2000-07-12 07:51:49 UTC-04:00
In a message dated 7/11/00 8:06:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, elm@ao.net
writes:
<<
Thanks for the comment. To be open about the issue, there is likely
hesitation about my offer due to the early history of letterboxing web
related activities...
<<
Thankfully, you guys who have been involved from way back and who have
taken on the responsibility of managing the site will be the ones to work out
where, when and what....but it seems Eric's offer is a good one.
My additional two cents,
Mohmers
writes:
<<
Thanks for the comment. To be open about the issue, there is likely
hesitation about my offer due to the early history of letterboxing web
related activities...
<<
Thankfully, you guys who have been involved from way back and who have
taken on the responsibility of managing the site will be the ones to work out
where, when and what....but it seems Eric's offer is a good one.
My additional two cents,
Mohmers
Re: [LbNA] What an offer
From: Thom Cheney (tcgrafx@imagina.com) |
Date: 2000-07-12 10:15:18 UTC-07:00
Eric Mings wrote:
>
> I have other things that I am working on
> developing, that to me are much more important in the ultimate scheme of
> things than whether my offer is accepted. Again, I wish the best for the
> LBNA site regardless of where it may live in the future.
Eric,
I for one am happy to see you involved with this group again. I think
your offer is extremely generous. I remember when the original split
occured. I wondered for awhile if the letterboxers in the US would
survive as a group. We were so spread out and there were probably less
than 20 boxes planted in the entire country!! We did then and later
when Dan Servatius left us and we further evolved as a web ring. Since
then it seems like new names and faces that eclipse my meager
contributions to this pastime are popping up daily. It is really
exciting to see the growth over the past 2-1/2 years.
Are we going to take Eric up on his offer? It certainly deals with all
the issues we have in regards to banner advertising. Certainly the
price is right! Forgive me for being blunt Eric, but if we are
seriously considering approaching a semi-related business to house the
site (such as REI), what is the difference if Eric, who once intended to
commercialize some parts of letterboxing (including the sale of a
catalog of clues), is our sponsor?
I see only 2 stipulations that should be in place no matter where we
house the site:
Individual authors and artist retain their copyrights to clues and
images.
Access to make changes to the LBNA website should never be limited to
one person, yet should be a VERY closely guarded responsibility.
Possibly by persons voted on or approved by the egroups LBNA list as a
whole.
Other thoughts?
--
Thom Cheney
tcgrafx... among other things
>
> I have other things that I am working on
> developing, that to me are much more important in the ultimate scheme of
> things than whether my offer is accepted. Again, I wish the best for the
> LBNA site regardless of where it may live in the future.
Eric,
I for one am happy to see you involved with this group again. I think
your offer is extremely generous. I remember when the original split
occured. I wondered for awhile if the letterboxers in the US would
survive as a group. We were so spread out and there were probably less
than 20 boxes planted in the entire country!! We did then and later
when Dan Servatius left us and we further evolved as a web ring. Since
then it seems like new names and faces that eclipse my meager
contributions to this pastime are popping up daily. It is really
exciting to see the growth over the past 2-1/2 years.
Are we going to take Eric up on his offer? It certainly deals with all
the issues we have in regards to banner advertising. Certainly the
price is right! Forgive me for being blunt Eric, but if we are
seriously considering approaching a semi-related business to house the
site (such as REI), what is the difference if Eric, who once intended to
commercialize some parts of letterboxing (including the sale of a
catalog of clues), is our sponsor?
I see only 2 stipulations that should be in place no matter where we
house the site:
Individual authors and artist retain their copyrights to clues and
images.
Access to make changes to the LBNA website should never be limited to
one person, yet should be a VERY closely guarded responsibility.
Possibly by persons voted on or approved by the egroups LBNA list as a
whole.
Other thoughts?
--
Thom Cheney
tcgrafx... among other things
Re: [LbNA] What an offer
From: Thom Cheney (tcgrafx@imagina.com) |
Date: 2000-07-12 10:17:50 UTC-07:00
...now if we can just get Dan'l back with us! Anyone hear from him
ever?
--
Thom Cheney
tcgrafx... among other things
ever?
--
Thom Cheney
tcgrafx... among other things
Re: [LbNA] What an offer
From: Eric Mings (elm@ao.net) |
Date: 2000-07-12 14:18:35 UTC-04:00
>I see only 2 stipulations that should be in place no matter where we
>house the site:
>
>Individual authors and artist retain their copyrights to clues and
>images.
>
>Access to make changes to the LBNA website should never be limited to
>one person, yet should be a VERY closely guarded responsibility.
>Possibly by persons voted on or approved by the egroups LBNA list as a
>whole.
>
>
>Other thoughts?
Thom,
Thanks for the welcome back! I agree with you completely on both counts.
Let me make something clear, I have _no_ interest in being involved in
any decision making about the details of LBNA development. Truthfully, I
have had my fill of the negative vibes that can come along with the need
to try to come to a concensus on things about which people have very
strong differing opions. Long after I removed myself from the process, I
think these type of conflicts apparently continued to some extent and one
consequence was that Dan is no longer involved. Although early on Dan
(and couple others) did make some rather vicious statements directed at
me, I have never held any grudges. However, it was enough to make me
aware that I did not have _any_ desire to put myself in that position
again. Whatever development I may do with the ILC site will be totally my
decision, and _completely_ seperate from anything the group may do with
the LBNA site. I simply offered the hosting because I can do it and
because I wanted to contribute. If people want to take the offer that is
fine, if not that is fine also. For what it is worth, I do agree with
you about the idea of that the "keepers of LBNA" should ideally be voted
on regularly if the whole point (as opposed to what I was trying to do
with my site) is for it to truly be a community run venture.
No matter what is done with the LBNA site, I am still working on making
the ILC site focused upon being a place where people can submit clues and
letterboxing sites in as simple a way as possible (via email and/or
online form) and maintain them (edit or remove) themselves whenever
needed via a simple form. For me it is a fun techno-geek challenge to do
this. It is not meant to compete with other clue/site repositories but
rather just another user friendly place to place clues and sites. I
really don't have time to do much else with the ILC site right now. If
people use the ILC resource I willmaintain it, if there is no enthusiasm
for it I will probably take it down. Regardless, it is a completely
seperate issue from the hosting I offered for LBNA.
I do think there is one thing people should clearly understand who may
still be suspicious of my offer. The entire control of where
www.letterboxing.org is located resides COMPLETELY with the owner of that
domain name. ONLY that person (I think it may be Randy) can change where
that name points at any time. As long as people maintain a backups of
the actual files that comprise LBNA (which I would suggest is done by
more than one person) it is a simple process to have the site moved to
another system by changing domain records that determine where
www.letterboxing.org lives. Point being that even if people got pissed at
me for some reason, it would take only about two days (in my experience)
to point the domain name somewhere else, and there is absolutely nothing
I could do about it. Likewise if for some reason I became uncomforatable
with the situation (or unable to any longer provide hosting for whatever
reason), I could request that the site be moved off my servers and it
would only take a couple days for that to happen assuming other hosting
could be found.
Now..., if some of y'all would just come to Florida for vacation and
plant some boxes I would be much happier discussing finding some boxes
down here than all this stuff. Thus far the only one I have had a chance
to find is the one in Evanston Illinois.
--
Regards,
Eric Mings Ph.D.
>house the site:
>
>Individual authors and artist retain their copyrights to clues and
>images.
>
>Access to make changes to the LBNA website should never be limited to
>one person, yet should be a VERY closely guarded responsibility.
>Possibly by persons voted on or approved by the egroups LBNA list as a
>whole.
>
>
>Other thoughts?
Thom,
Thanks for the welcome back! I agree with you completely on both counts.
Let me make something clear, I have _no_ interest in being involved in
any decision making about the details of LBNA development. Truthfully, I
have had my fill of the negative vibes that can come along with the need
to try to come to a concensus on things about which people have very
strong differing opions. Long after I removed myself from the process, I
think these type of conflicts apparently continued to some extent and one
consequence was that Dan is no longer involved. Although early on Dan
(and couple others) did make some rather vicious statements directed at
me, I have never held any grudges. However, it was enough to make me
aware that I did not have _any_ desire to put myself in that position
again. Whatever development I may do with the ILC site will be totally my
decision, and _completely_ seperate from anything the group may do with
the LBNA site. I simply offered the hosting because I can do it and
because I wanted to contribute. If people want to take the offer that is
fine, if not that is fine also. For what it is worth, I do agree with
you about the idea of that the "keepers of LBNA" should ideally be voted
on regularly if the whole point (as opposed to what I was trying to do
with my site) is for it to truly be a community run venture.
No matter what is done with the LBNA site, I am still working on making
the ILC site focused upon being a place where people can submit clues and
letterboxing sites in as simple a way as possible (via email and/or
online form) and maintain them (edit or remove) themselves whenever
needed via a simple form. For me it is a fun techno-geek challenge to do
this. It is not meant to compete with other clue/site repositories but
rather just another user friendly place to place clues and sites. I
really don't have time to do much else with the ILC site right now. If
people use the ILC resource I willmaintain it, if there is no enthusiasm
for it I will probably take it down. Regardless, it is a completely
seperate issue from the hosting I offered for LBNA.
I do think there is one thing people should clearly understand who may
still be suspicious of my offer. The entire control of where
www.letterboxing.org is located resides COMPLETELY with the owner of that
domain name. ONLY that person (I think it may be Randy) can change where
that name points at any time. As long as people maintain a backups of
the actual files that comprise LBNA (which I would suggest is done by
more than one person) it is a simple process to have the site moved to
another system by changing domain records that determine where
www.letterboxing.org lives. Point being that even if people got pissed at
me for some reason, it would take only about two days (in my experience)
to point the domain name somewhere else, and there is absolutely nothing
I could do about it. Likewise if for some reason I became uncomforatable
with the situation (or unable to any longer provide hosting for whatever
reason), I could request that the site be moved off my servers and it
would only take a couple days for that to happen assuming other hosting
could be found.
Now..., if some of y'all would just come to Florida for vacation and
plant some boxes I would be much happier discussing finding some boxes
down here than all this stuff. Thus far the only one I have had a chance
to find is the one in Evanston Illinois.
--
Regards,
Eric Mings Ph.D.
Re: [LbNA] What an offer
From: Tanya Achermann (icecelt@yahoo.com) |
Date: 2000-07-13 07:52:50 UTC-07:00
I think Eric Mings' offer is a super one!
As a newbie, I don't much care about what went on in
the past (that's pretty much my entire life view,
too;>), I just hope that there will be a centralised
location for the letterbox clues!:>
Dr. Ming's setup on his system sounds superb, nobody
is going to find that sort of hosting for free, that's
for sure!
Meanwhile, I'll go back to the "olde tyme" hobby of
carving up a lot of rubber here in preparation for
some new Cali letterboxes!:>
-Tanya
OOps..and P.S. - a quick way to submit clues straight
to the site sounds absolutely divine. Much easier, and
lends more freedom, I think, to the clue-writer to
spend more of his or her time placing boxes and less
worrying about how to get their clues out to the
searching (ever searching) public. So if Dr. Mings
wanted to contribue some scripting to that effect
(nudge nudge wink wink) that would be, well, spiffy:>
In my opinion:>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get Yahoo! Mail Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
As a newbie, I don't much care about what went on in
the past (that's pretty much my entire life view,
too;>), I just hope that there will be a centralised
location for the letterbox clues!:>
Dr. Ming's setup on his system sounds superb, nobody
is going to find that sort of hosting for free, that's
for sure!
Meanwhile, I'll go back to the "olde tyme" hobby of
carving up a lot of rubber here in preparation for
some new Cali letterboxes!:>
-Tanya
OOps..and P.S. - a quick way to submit clues straight
to the site sounds absolutely divine. Much easier, and
lends more freedom, I think, to the clue-writer to
spend more of his or her time placing boxes and less
worrying about how to get their clues out to the
searching (ever searching) public. So if Dr. Mings
wanted to contribue some scripting to that effect
(nudge nudge wink wink) that would be, well, spiffy:>
In my opinion:>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get Yahoo! Mail Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
RE: [LbNA] What an offer
From: Wendy Gault (wendygault@earthlink.net) |
Date: 2000-07-13 08:49:04 UTC-07:00
Ditto Ditto Ditto
If we can keep corp out and advertising out and bookkeepping out it would
continue to be the BEST.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tanya Achermann [mailto:icecelt@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 7:53 AM
To: letterbox-usa@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] What an offer
I think Eric Mings' offer is a super one!
As a newbie, I don't much care about what went on in
the past (that's pretty much my entire life view,
too;>), I just hope that there will be a centralised
location for the letterbox clues!:>
Dr. Ming's setup on his system sounds superb, nobody
is going to find that sort of hosting for free, that's
for sure!
Meanwhile, I'll go back to the "olde tyme" hobby of
carving up a lot of rubber here in preparation for
some new Cali letterboxes!:>
-Tanya
OOps..and P.S. - a quick way to submit clues straight
to the site sounds absolutely divine. Much easier, and
lends more freedom, I think, to the clue-writer to
spend more of his or her time placing boxes and less
worrying about how to get their clues out to the
searching (ever searching) public. So if Dr. Mings
wanted to contribue some scripting to that effect
(nudge nudge wink wink) that would be, well, spiffy:>
In my opinion:>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get Yahoo! Mail Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
BTW: Did you buy that new car yet?
If not, check this site out.
They're called CarsDirect.com and it's a pretty sweet way to buy a car.
http://click.egroups.com/1/6847/4/_/12562/_/963501877/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
If we can keep corp out and advertising out and bookkeepping out it would
continue to be the BEST.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tanya Achermann [mailto:icecelt@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 7:53 AM
To: letterbox-usa@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] What an offer
I think Eric Mings' offer is a super one!
As a newbie, I don't much care about what went on in
the past (that's pretty much my entire life view,
too;>), I just hope that there will be a centralised
location for the letterbox clues!:>
Dr. Ming's setup on his system sounds superb, nobody
is going to find that sort of hosting for free, that's
for sure!
Meanwhile, I'll go back to the "olde tyme" hobby of
carving up a lot of rubber here in preparation for
some new Cali letterboxes!:>
-Tanya
OOps..and P.S. - a quick way to submit clues straight
to the site sounds absolutely divine. Much easier, and
lends more freedom, I think, to the clue-writer to
spend more of his or her time placing boxes and less
worrying about how to get their clues out to the
searching (ever searching) public. So if Dr. Mings
wanted to contribue some scripting to that effect
(nudge nudge wink wink) that would be, well, spiffy:>
In my opinion:>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get Yahoo! Mail Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
BTW: Did you buy that new car yet?
If not, check this site out.
They're called CarsDirect.com and it's a pretty sweet way to buy a car.
http://click.egroups.com/1/6847/4/_/12562/_/963501877/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: [LbNA] What an offer
From: Michael M. Frazier (MikeFrazier@visto.com) |
Date: 2000-07-13 10:10:34 UTC-07:00
I can't promise anything right now, but in Eric's offer he mentioned that he
has PHP and MySQL on his systems. If LbNA takes him up and uses his server,
I'd be willing to assist anyone wanting to write scripts using these. I
haven't done a lot, but am currently working on a project writing PHP scripts
to access a MySQL database for a dynamic web site. There is a LOT of potential
here if someone has the time and the skills to do it as these are fantastic
tools.
--
Michael M. Frazier email: MikeFrazier@visto.com
Colorado Springs, CO AOL IM: frazierm99
-----Original Message-----
From: Tanya Achermann icecelt@yahoo.com
Sent: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 07:52:50 -0700 (PDT)
To: letterbox-usa@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] What an offer
I think Eric Mings' offer is a super one!
As a newbie, I don't much care about what went on in
the past (that's pretty much my entire life view,
too;>), I just hope that there will be a centralised
location for the letterbox clues!:>
Dr. Ming's setup on his system sounds superb, nobody
is going to find that sort of hosting for free, that's
for sure!
Meanwhile, I'll go back to the "olde tyme" hobby of
carving up a lot of rubber here in preparation for
some new Cali letterboxes!:>
-Tanya
OOps..and P.S. - a quick way to submit clues straight
to the site sounds absolutely divine. Much easier, and
lends more freedom, I think, to the clue-writer to
spend more of his or her time placing boxes and less
worrying about how to get their clues out to the
searching (ever searching) public. So if Dr. Mings
wanted to contribue some scripting to that effect
(nudge nudge wink wink) that would be, well, spiffy:>
In my opinion:>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get Yahoo! Mail Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
BTW: Did you buy that new car yet?
If not, check this site out.
They're called CarsDirect.com and it's a pretty sweet way to buy a car.
http://click.egroups.com/1/6847/4/_/12562/_/963501877/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________
Visit http://www.visto.com/info, your free web-based communications center.
Visto.com. Life on the Dot.
has PHP and MySQL on his systems. If LbNA takes him up and uses his server,
I'd be willing to assist anyone wanting to write scripts using these. I
haven't done a lot, but am currently working on a project writing PHP scripts
to access a MySQL database for a dynamic web site. There is a LOT of potential
here if someone has the time and the skills to do it as these are fantastic
tools.
--
Michael M. Frazier email: MikeFrazier@visto.com
Colorado Springs, CO AOL IM: frazierm99
-----Original Message-----
From: Tanya Achermann icecelt@yahoo.com
Sent: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 07:52:50 -0700 (PDT)
To: letterbox-usa@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] What an offer
I think Eric Mings' offer is a super one!
As a newbie, I don't much care about what went on in
the past (that's pretty much my entire life view,
too;>), I just hope that there will be a centralised
location for the letterbox clues!:>
Dr. Ming's setup on his system sounds superb, nobody
is going to find that sort of hosting for free, that's
for sure!
Meanwhile, I'll go back to the "olde tyme" hobby of
carving up a lot of rubber here in preparation for
some new Cali letterboxes!:>
-Tanya
OOps..and P.S. - a quick way to submit clues straight
to the site sounds absolutely divine. Much easier, and
lends more freedom, I think, to the clue-writer to
spend more of his or her time placing boxes and less
worrying about how to get their clues out to the
searching (ever searching) public. So if Dr. Mings
wanted to contribue some scripting to that effect
(nudge nudge wink wink) that would be, well, spiffy:>
In my opinion:>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get Yahoo! Mail Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
BTW: Did you buy that new car yet?
If not, check this site out.
They're called CarsDirect.com and it's a pretty sweet way to buy a car.
http://click.egroups.com/1/6847/4/_/12562/_/963501877/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________
Visit http://www.visto.com/info, your free web-based communications center.
Visto.com. Life on the Dot.
Re: [LbNA] What an offer
From: Steven Stary (kurrwic@yahoo.com) |
Date: 2000-07-14 09:20:05 UTC-07:00
I don't think we're going to find a much better
situation than the one offered, especially as it does
indeed fulfill all our requirements as well as wishes!
Steven Stary
Green Bay, WI
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get Yahoo! Mail Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
situation than the one offered, especially as it does
indeed fulfill all our requirements as well as wishes!
Steven Stary
Green Bay, WI
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get Yahoo! Mail Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/